Bono (25 page)

They're right to look for magic.

I don't know, really. To us, celebrity is magic, and it's certainly a new cult. I mean, people try to get close to celebrities, because they think they convey some sort of magic, that they bring them luck, actually. Anyway, if we want to sum this up, someone who becomes a terrorist and someone who goes to a U2 concert have something in common. They both want to escape from the materialistic, dull daily life. You see what I mean? Both are looking for transcendence.

But there are two routes out of town. There always were, there always are. There's transcendence and there's the cover version, or the dull copy: junk-food transcendence of drugs, the “easy to digest but finally that's gonna give you heart disease” religion. But I tend to believe that people who just want a cheap way out of their life can find zealotry in lots of places. The true life of a believer is one of a longer, more hazardous or uphill pilgrimage, and where you uncover slowly the sort of illumination for your next step. Religious people, generally, they freak me out. Honestly, I start twitching when I'm around them. But sometimes, maybe weirdos are the only people who really know they need God.

And what about the other ones? What would they need God for?

I look around at the twentieth century: it's not a great advertisement for unbelief. Where did communism bring Russia? Look at what more
openness is bringing to China. I will say this for the Judeo-Christian tradition: we have at least written into the DNA the idea that God created every man equal, and that love is at the heart of the Universe. I mean, it's slow. The Greeks may have come up with democracy, but they had no intention of everyone having it. We have to conclude that the most access to equality in the world has come out of these ancient religious ideas.
[pause]
Michka, are you still there?

I'm still here. This is interesting. But I'm realizing, maybe a bit too late, that it's quite hard to steer an Irishman banging on about God and religion.

Do you really think other people are going to be interested in this?

No idea.

Right. That was an unexpected diversion into the catacombs. I enjoyed it, but we don't know if anyone else will. Stop me if I get too self-indulgent. But you know what? I never talk at this length with anybody who's writing or recording. They're usually drinking.

Or falling asleep. But that's OK. I think at some point you tend to forget who you are.

That's good.

And at some point I forget about your personality and bin the set list.

Well, me too. That's good. OK. Let's get lost, as Chet Baker would say. One last thing, though. Can we title this chapter: “For those not interested in God, please pass by”?

We seemed to have found our pace: an hour on the phone every three or four weeks, keeping things sharp and concise. I now think of these conversations as genuine performances on Bono's part. Once you've got him, he is always spot-on.

He was in his villa in Nice and mentioned that he had just gone for a swim and “lain up on a stony beach.” He must have thicker skin than I do. In Paris, the temperature had dipped below freezing the night before.

So even though it's the day before Easter, I'm vowing that I won't lecture you like I did last time.

No, I just might need to be.

Well, not always.
[laughs]
When I think back to how you first got involved in humanitarian action in Africa, I picture that famous moment during the Live Aid concert in the summer of 1985. Many remember it,
and now you can even download it online: as you finish one of your songs, you spot a girl in the crowd who is waving at you, pressed against the railings. You signal her to come on the stage, and then, realizing that she can't get past security, you jump off the stage, pick her up, and then you both abandon yourselves in a sort of slow, languorous dance. Probably more than one billion people witnessed that piece of showcase intimacy. Nineteen years later, may I ask: what the hell were you thinking at that moment?

[clears his throat]
Well, you should never trust a performer completely.

Yeah, you already told me that.

As I told you, performers are sort of part con men and, if they're any good, part shaman. So, in order to do your job, you have to be completely spontaneous and completely conscious. Though it was a spontaneous act to leave the stage, which was rather high and removed from the crowd, and though the time spent in the crowd resulted in us not performing the hit—“Pride (In the Name of Love)”—the other side of me knew what I was doing. I was trying to find an image that would be remembered for the day.

So you're finally revealing the appalling truth: it was staged.

Partly, in my head, you know. But it's hard to describe this process, because it's like when you're writing: you're looking all the time for the right image. Or when you're performing, you're looking for those moments. As we've discussed before, as a performer, I'm not content with the distance between the crowd and the performer. I'm always trying to cross that distance. I'm trying to do it emotionally, mentally, and, where I can, physically. So it wasn't just about rescuing the girl from the crowd, because I'm not so sure she needed to be rescued, but I was trying to find an image just to communicate how we all felt on that day. That was an overpowering
day. It was a day that made tiny everybody that was in it, and the subject was so much bigger than anyone on the stage. I was not happy with just playing our songs and getting out of there. I wanted to find that moment. Of course, afterwards, I got a terrible time from the band. I was almost fired. Because I had climbed on roofs, I had left stages before, I had climbed on PA stacks, I had jumped into the crowds, I had physical confrontations in crowds, but this was the worst one for them, to leave them for what felt like hours, apparently. Larry told me he was going to stop playing. This was a big show for our band, there were a billion people watching, and we didn't do our big song. Everyone was very annoyed with me, I mean,
very
annoyed.

But were you convinced at that very moment that it was the right thing to do, the right image? As it turns out, you were correct.

It turned out, but I didn't know until a week later. It ruined my day. I thought I'd ruined the band's performance. I went home to the hotel and just watched the end of Live Aid, which was Bob Dylan with Keith Richards and Ronnie Wood as guests. I just put it out of my head. A week later, people came back and said that was one of the moments they remembered. I was hiding out in a small country town in Ireland where Ali's family live. We called on a sculptor friend of her family. He was pulling a piece of bronze out of a furnace as we walked in. His eyes nearly popped out of his head. “That's you,” he said, “I've just taken out of the fire. It's a piece inspired by what you did last week on Live Aid. It's called ‘The Leap.' You see,” he said, “you made a leap of faith that day.”

Everyone watching discovered that “out of control” aspect of your performance. Did you realize that at the time?

We keep starting these conversations, but the other thing I don't trust is a performer who's content on the stage, content with the distance between
him or her and the audience. Whether it's an actor or whether it's a singer, I want to feel like the person on stage can stop playing a role, jump down, sit on my knee, follow me home, hug me, mug me, borrow money from me, make me breakfast in the morning. I've always had that as a performer. I don't want people to feel comfortable in the relationship. I want to feel like it could snap.

Do you remember that girl's name? And did you ever talk with her again? Do you know what she's doing now?

No. Not at all. We both gave ourselves to a moment and a piece of television. And then . . .

. . . no memories.

“I never called, I never wrote.”
[laughs]
Actually, I'm not even sure if she was pleased that I singled her out.

What did you feel when she was in your arms?

Oh, I felt she was just a gorgeous girl. I felt her sort of shaking a little bit in my arms. But she might well have just been going: “I wish this rock star would stop sweating on me. I wish he washed.”

Maybe
she
hasn't been washing ever since . . .

She might have been there to see the Rolling Stones, or whoever else was on, David Bowie.

When you're in the audience, you want these kinds of moments to be unique, magic, and unrepeatable. You ask yourself: Was that staged? Or
is it going to be exactly the same at the next performance, whether in Amsterdam or Houston, Texas?

Sometimes it is. Because what I tend to do as a performer is I remember the happy accident.

And you tend to repeat it.

Not every night, but I will try to find a moment like that again. That's the kind of story of our live shows. Like, for instance, on Zoo TV, I remember one time I picked the camera out of the hands of someone in the crowd, brought them onstage and then filmed them from their eyes right the way down: their top, their belly button, their belt, their T-shirt, their jeans, right down to their toes. There was something very erotic about this girl standing there that I was filming with her own camera. And then I thought: “Wow! Imagine if we could broadcast that on our giant screens . . .” And so on Zoo TV we did that. I used to bring somebody out from the crowd and film them from their head to their toe. It was an amazing moment. It was a private moment, but then made into a sort of mega-moment.

It was a sort of journalistic statement as well, because that's what TV is about these days.

That was reality TV: Zoo Television, where people become the zoo. What was the name of the mental institute that the Victorian English used to visit? Bedlam. People would pay in to poke the mentally retarded people with sticks and watch them being mad. That's what I think the Andy Warhol fifteen minutes has done.

When you think back to those moments, are there any that you regret? Do you ever think: I have no idea why I did that, or who I was back then?

I remember going into a crowd during the
War
tour with the white flag. And I remember the crowd wouldn't let me through, and I started fighting with the crowd. That big jock had started to block my way, and I lost it in the crush, throwing digs to protect myself, making my statement about pacifism and nonviolence.
[laughs]
I don't know what was going on in my head back then. There are pictures, I think from the same tour, maybe, in Los Angeles, jumping off a balcony into a crowd. Robert Hilburn, the great American critic, said it was one of the most exciting moments he'd seen at a rock 'n' roll show and one of the dumbest.
[laughs]

Well, the two usually belong together. Did you know that James Brown actually started doing this balcony thing in the late fifties?

I didn't know that. I got it more from Iggy Pop. Iggy Pop was my definition of the greatest performer in music. I was sixteen when I discovered him in the record shops we've discussed, in the City Centre of Dublin, seeing the pictures on the Stooges' albums. They set fire to my imagination. He was combatative, physical, manic. I'd never seen anyone like him. Whereas the punk performers looked like they would leave the stage, but they really wouldn't.
He
would.

There's this story I've heard that, for me, sums up the revolution that punk brought to the art of performing. It happened during one of the very few performances that the Sex Pistols gave, way back in 1976 in London. At some point, Johnny Rotten climbed down from the stage, and quietly sat in the theater, watching his own band perform. He became a part of the audience. I would say it was less raw and brutal than Iggy Pop, but just as challenging.

Yeah, not just raw intelligence there, a sophisticated mind at work. Moral outrage is what I got from the Sex Pistols. But as to becoming part of the
audience, I remember playing our first tour of the United States. There might be like sixty, seventy, one hundred people in the club. The floor would be empty. I would leave the stage, sit at their tables, drink their drinks and kiss their girlfriends. Fun stuff. I loved that. I loved becoming the audience. U2 came from the audience. I like the idea that you can go back. On the last tour, during “The Fly,” I left the stage and climbed over the crowd, and walked out of the back of the arena and got into a taxi and went home.

You mean you didn't finish the show?

That was the last song. Maybe there was one more song to go, but I just did it. I did it because I could. In these concerts, I'm always looking for the image. On the last tour, during “Until the End of the World,” I used to reach out and grab a hand, and then bite it. The lovers' row thing, biting the hand that feeds. It was a great image to see in the newspapers the next morning; “U2 still hungry.”
[laughs]

During those early U2 concerts, you could actually sit in the same seats as the crowd. Now you can only pretend to. It's not the real thing anymore.

That's right. It's more difficult now to walk around. We're up at a very different pitch now, I'm glad to report.
[laughs]

No more slobbering into other people's beer.

I do miss that aspect, but I don't miss it that much. I used to feel sick, worrying about how many people would turn up. I mean I would feel physically ill, because before we go onstage is a very difficult time anyway. It was made much more difficult if we didn't know if there was anyone gonna be there.
[laughs]

Let me go back to that Live Aid performance in 1985. I think Bob Geldof started the whole thing after he saw a report on the BBC in 1984 about famine in Ethiopia. But how did you get interested?

Well, you know, Ireland has a lot of ties with Africa, because of Catholic missions: nuns, priests. Ireland is very Africa-conscious because, I suppose, as a country, it had its own famine not that long ago. In the mid-nineteenth century, the population of Ireland went from eight million to four million. Two million died and two million went off to become policemen in New York.
[laughs]
Well, no: in Boston, and London, San Francisco, Birmingham, Sydney. But there are very strong ties there. Maybe it's folk memory, maybe it's just a shared colonial past. Those reports from the BBC were extraordinary. I'm sure you had similar in France. It was hard to believe, what was happening. It was really hard. We watched that image of that starving child trying to stand up. You know, it's still stuck on my mind. In a world where there is so much, in a world where there's plenty, in a world of unimaginable prosperity, a child can die of starvation! It's hard to believe. Then later, after Live Aid, when Ali and I went—and the images weren't pictures, they were children standing in front of me, or at least trying to stand in front of me. I remember deciding that I don't want to be, I will not be, in a world where that continues to be true. Now, with DATA informing me, I know that we can be the generation that ends extreme poverty, the kind of poverty where a child can die for lack of simple immunization or having food in its belly. Because we can, we must. Yes, there will always be poverty, yes, there will always be people dying of disease, but no, not that stupid poverty.

True. But most musicians who have done work for Africa have also been passionate about African music. Peter Gabriel, for instance. Paul Simon went over to South Africa to record
Graceland,
and he worked with the famous Zulu choir Ladysmith Black Mambazo. But you didn't go over there with Edge, Larry, and Adam. You went as a private person, not as a musician.

Well, remember there was a cultural boycott for South Africa. People, many times, offered us to go to Sun City. We turned them down. We were the first band to be invited after the cultural embargo was lifted.
*
The first band the ANC invited was U2, because we had been part of the anti-apartheid community in Ireland and in Europe. But we hadn't visited the rest of sub-Saharan Africa. Until that moment, there weren't many Holiday Inns for a band to play.

But I am sure that your greatest mentor, Brian Eno, had introduced you to African music by the time of Live Aid.

Oh, he talked about it all the time. He had just made
Remain in Light
with the Talking Heads, and in fact he arrived at the U2 session for
The Unforgettable Fire
in early 1984 with his head full of Africa.

Knowing the extent of your passion for Africa, I am surprised that it has never spilled over into U2's music. I mean your music has always been . . .