Authors: Jerry Amernic
“Our members include respected academics from schools like Yale, Harvard, Georgetown and Princeton and they’ve published scores of e-books and mini-kindles and countless articles about this hoax that has been perpetrated for the past century. To say there was such an event of such magnitude is to denigrate the work and the very careers of some of America’s most distinguished historians.”
“But there is also a lot written about this … event … is there not?” said Anderson. “I mean the Jewish holocaust? I’ve read these books myself and there are lots of them.”
“Ms. Anderson, have you ever read
Gulliver’s Travels
?” said Burns.
“Yes of course.”
“That’s a book too. About giants and little people.”
“But that’s a novel,” broke in the Israeli academic. “A work of fiction.”
“Yes just like the Jewish holocaust,” said Burns. “But it’s still a book. Sometimes people find it difficult to draw a line between truth and fiction and that’s the problem we have here. Just where do you draw the line?”
“You call yourself a revisionist, don’t you?” said Anderson.
“No I never used that term,” said Burns. “Other people use it. People who don’t like to know the truth use it. If I am anything I’m a historian. But I want to add that it’s not only historians who dispute this allegation. So do the American people. Just last year a poll said that eighty-two percent of the U.S. population don’t believe six million Jews were killed by Nazi Germany in the last century. Eighty-two percent. That’s a pretty large majority.”
“Yes but another poll said half the American population doesn’t believe we ever landed on Mars,” said Anderson. “Yet we know it to be fact.”
“Well I don’t know about that but it’s clear that most people, at least in the United States, don’t accept all this nonsense about a Jewish holocaust with six million dead and it’s not just in the United States. Polls taken in many other countries show the same thing. Sweden. Australia. Spain. Portugal. Most people don’t believe it.”
“All right. I want to go back to Mr. Fisher for a moment,” said Anderson, “but wait. We have another caller. William Hawthrington is Professor Emeritus of History at the University of California at Berkeley. Welcome to Talk Back, Professor Hawthrington.”
“I take exception to the comments made by the previous person who portrays himself as a legitimate historian when he is not. One cannot dispute that Nazi Germany tried to wipe out Europe’s Jews in the Second World War. At the Nuremberg Trials right after that war it was the extensive documentation put together by the Nazis themselves as well as actual film they took that did in the defendants. We’re not talking about an opinion here or a suggestion or innuendo. We are talking about facts and the facts speak for themselves. At the beginning of that conflict Europe had 9.6 million Jews and when it was over 5.7 million of them were dead.”
“Mr. Burns,” said Anderson, “what do you say to that?”
“Well it depends on which Nuremberg prosecutors you’re talking about. The American prosecutor was concerned with Jews while the Soviet prosecutor was concerned with the genocide waged by Nazi Germany against Soviet Russia. The Soviet Union as it was called in those days lost twenty million people in that war.
Twenty million people!
How come nobody talks about that holocaust?”
“Twenty million?” said Anderson.
“He is correct,” said Hawthrington. “That’s the first thing he has said that’s right. The Soviet Union lost twenty million people, most of them civilians, in the Second World War.”
“And since we’re on the subject of Nuremberg it’s interesting that not all Nazis who were on trial there received the death penalty,” said Burns. “Even the American-controlled judge and jury didn’t see all these characters as being equally culpable. But that whole trial was a perfect example of victor’s justice.”
“Victor’s justice?” said Anderson.
“Yes. The whole thing was put together by the victorious Allies … the Americans … the British … the French. Nazi Germany was on trial because it lost the war. Another thing we shouldn’t forget is that that the Second World War was over only when the United States dropped the world’s first atom bombs on Japan. How come U.S. President Harry Truman was never put on trial for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Japanese civilians? I’ll tell you why. Victor’s justice. Japan and Germany lost the war and the Americans won the war.”
“We’re getting off track,” said Anderson. “Professor Hawthrington mentioned the documents and the films … German films … that were presented as evidence at Nuremberg.”
“It was all about revenge,” shot back Burns, “which happens in every conflict where there’s a clear winner and a clear loser. The fact is …”
“The Jews were the losers,” said Jack.
“What was that Mr. Fisher?” asked Anderson.
“Six million Jews murdered by the Nazis were the losers in that war. Not Germany or Japan. Those countries were rebuilt right after the war and both of them became very prosperous. But the Jews were wiped out. Where are all the Jews in Poland today?”
“They are in America,” said Burns. “And they help write foreign policy.”
There was a lull. It was broken by Professor Hawthrington of Berkeley.
“Ms. Anderson, your guest here has just shown us his true colors. No historian would say a thing like that and it shows where he’s coming from. This is the stuff of conspiracy theories of the worst kind … and anti-Semitism … and that is the seed of this revisionist junk that masquerades as history. Unfortunately, the masses … and it pains me to me say this … but especially the American masses … are ignorant of history. Even their own history. They are susceptible to the garbage peddled by this junk salesman.”
“I beg your pardon?” said Burns.
“You heard me.”
“I didn’t say anything about conspiracy theories.”
“I suppose 9/11 was conceived in Washington by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.”
“Well,” said Burns, “there are many people around the world who believe that. At the United Nations …”
“Listen,” said Hawthrington, “I can’t think of a more anti-Semitic organization or anti-Israeli organization than the United Nations.”
“I would like to say something about the Nuremberg trials,” said Jack.
“Excuse me?” said Anderson.
“The Nuremberg trials,” repeated Jack.
“Yes? What about Nuremberg?”
“In November 1945 the chief prosecutor … I forget his name … but I know what he said …”
“What did he say?” asked Anderson.
Jack cleared his throat. “We must never forget that the record on which we judge these defendants is the record on which history will judge us tomorrow.”
At first, no one said a word. Anderson let Jack’s quotation sink in.
“His name was Robert L. Jackson,” said Hawthrington. “This gentleman Mr. Fisher has an excellent memory. The quote is correct.” Hawthrington allowed himself a smile.
“Well,” said Anderson, “we don’t have much time left, I’m afraid, and I see that every one of our callers is still with us. So Mr. Fisher we have several guests on the show today who don’t think your story is true. About the Nazis murdering six million Jews in the last century. They think you’re lying.”
“I never used that term,” said Stracht. “I just think the old man is mistaken and he can be forgiven for that. I mean, he is a hundred years old.”
“I’m not mistaken about anything,” insisted Jack. “I was there. I saw it. When I was in the ghetto at
Lodz
I saw the SS shoot people right on the street. I saw a man, a Jewish man, walking on the sidewalk and they shot him because he was supposed to walk in the gutter. That was the law for Jews. You had to walk in the gutter. I saw people dying from disease and starvation every day. When I was at
Auschwitz
I saw them use rifles and machine guns to kill women and children.”
“Children?” said Anderson.
“Yes. They didn’t care. They had no use for them. Not if they were Jews.”
“You’re telling us that they used machine guns on little children?”
“Yes! I saw it with my own eyes!”
Mary Lou was beginning to think Jack had had enough. More than enough.
“Mr. Fisher, you call yourself a Catholic, don’t you?” said Anderson.
“I am Catholic but I was born a Jew and the first five years of my life that’s what I was.”
“So you converted?”
“You might say that but I didn’t have much of a choice. If you were a Jew they were going to kill you one way or another.”
“In ovens and gas chambers?”
“Yes.”
“Now Mr. Fisher, I want to ask you about something else. What’s this about skin made into lampshades?” said Anderson.
“What?”
“Skin … from Jewish corpses … made into lampshades. I’ve heard about this. Did it really happen?”
“I don’t know anything about that.”
“Have you ever heard these stories?”
“Yes but …”
“So you mean it may not be true?” interjected Stracht.
“I don’t know if it’s true or not,” said Jack. “But I never saw anything like that. I can only tell you what I saw.”
“But you never actually saw someone being placed in a gas chamber, did you?” said Stracht. “Did you see your own parents placed in ovens or gas chambers?”
“No.”
“Did you see their corpses? Their bodies?”
“No.”
“So how do you know that happened?”
“What else happened to them?”
“A lot of things could have happened to them. They could have been sick. They could have had a fatal disease. Maybe one of them got it and it spread. Isn’t that how a lot of Jews died during that time? From disease?”
“A lot of Jews did die from disease but most of them died from machine guns … or rifles … and gas chambers. Millions died in the gas chambers.”
“Trish,” said Stracht, “I’m afraid I have to go but I want to remind you and all your viewers around the world that Austria never had any death camps which harbored and tortured and murdered Jews. Even during a war my country would never do such a thing.”
“There were no such death camps anywhere … not in Europe or anywhere else,” said Burns.
“But didn’t they just close some of those camps a little while ago?” said Anderson. “Wasn’t there one in Holland?”
“Now it’s Holland,” said Stracht. “Listen. Holland closed a few wartime facilities just as several other countries did. In America do they keep those camps open where German Americans and Japanese Americans … U.S. citizens all of them … were incarcerated during the Second World War? Are they open now?”
“No,” said Anderson.
“And weren’t they shut down right after that war? Immediately after?”
“I believe they were.”
“And why did the Americans do that? Maybe so the world wouldn’t be reminded about it? Listen, these places you’re talking about in Europe were kept open for decades after that conflict until there was no purpose in having them. But none of them … and certainly not in Austria … were death camps. That is a fabrication.”
“What about Auschwitz?” said Anderson. “Didn’t they have some kind of museum there that was shut down? And aren’t they now talking about getting rid of the place for good?”
“Auschwitz was a holding facility just like Mauthausen.”
“Okay. Mr. Fisher, our time is up,” said Anderson. “I’d like to go back to you for a final word. The Austrian ambassador to the United Nations doesn’t believe your story about the camps. Neither does the member from the Austrian Parliament and neither does the gentleman from the Institute for Historical Review. And according to one of our guests eighty-two percent of Americans today don’t believe that six million Jews perished at the hands of Nazi Germany in the middle of the twentieth century. Only Professor Esther Dorion from the Hebrew University in Jerusalem and Professor William Hawthrington from the University of California at Berkeley agree with you on this one.”
“So it’s three against three,” said Burns.
“What I want to know, Mr. Fisher, is what do you say to these men? They don’t believe your story. They think you’re either not telling the truth or maybe your facts are mixed up.”
Mary Lou was squeezing her hands together. She had started to tense up with the first mention of gas chambers.
“I was at
Auschwitz
,” Jack said. “I saw the most horrible things there. If I had my choice I wouldn’t want to remember these things but living with these awful memories is my life sentence. As for the camps, of course they had camps. I was in a camp myself. An extermination camp. A death camp.
Auschwitz
. That’s what it was and it wasn’t the only one. There was also
Treblinka
…
Belzec
…
Chelmno
… they were everywhere. All over Europe. And they were there for one reason and one reason only. To kill Jews. And they did. I should know. I was there. I am a witness.”
21
It was two weeks before Christmas and unseasonably hot for New York City. The temperature hovered around sixty-five degrees Fahrenheit – the United States being the only country in the world still using that scale – and city dwellers were peeling off their coats and jackets. Some were even wearing shorts. Hodgson found Jack sitting in the garden behind the Greenwich Village Seniors Center. Alone. In a sweater.
“Mr. Fisher?” Hodgson said.
Jack’s eyes were shut. He looked to be sleeping under the blazing sun.
“Mr. Fisher?”
Jack opened his eyes. “Lieutenant Hodgson. I didn’t know you were coming.”
Hodgson pulled up a chair and sat down. He had a bulging envelope under his arm.
“Is your woman friend with you today?” Jack asked him.
“No,” Hodgson said.
“What have you got there?”
“Some documents I think you’ll find very interesting.” Hodgson opened the envelope, peeled off a few sheets of paper and handed them to Jack, who began fumbling around for his glasses. When he had them on, he started to read.
“Lodz Ghetto … Deportations … and Statistics.” Jack looked up at Hodgson. Even when sitting, Hodgson towered over him. “What is this?” Jack said.
“These are copies of the documents Christine left for you in that package she told you about. The one at the Elora Gorge. You were supposed to go to Kitchener for a family function but you didn’t make it, did you?”