Authors: Madoc Roberts
This last point was Owens’ ace card. Why would the Doctor send him back with explosives and £10,000 unless he still trusted him and wanted him to carry on?
The rest of this interrogation followed the same pattern as the first and so by the end of it, despite his more structured approach, Robertson had learned very little new information. Owens maintained that the Doctor had confronted him with the fact that he knew Owens was now working for the British but was apparently so convinced that Owens was trustworthy that he was happy for him to carry on as before. Owens couldn’t produce much to back up this version of events – apart from the fact that he had £10,000 and various devices that could be used in sabotage.
Having assessed Robertson’s first two interrogations of Owens, MI5 decided that Marriott should lead another session and this time they would start off by focusing on Owens, accusations regarding Walter Dicketts. Owens had claimed that Dicketts was double-crossing him and MI5, and that he had willingly gone into Germany and while there, had been treated in a way that suggested to Owens that he had been working for the Germans all along. Marriott’s first line of questioning was an attempt to try to work out the sequence of events that led to Dicketts being taken to Germany. Owens’ strategy at the start of the session was to try and turn the tables on Marriott.
‘C
ELERY
told me he had definite instructions to double-cross me and to take notes of all the money I gave him,’ explained Owens. ‘As regarding yourself he told me he knew about the North Sea trawler episode and that you had told him that I had a gun in front of me for 24 hours and I never turned a hair. That was from you. He told me that you were personally in a bad way with Major Robertson and that several times it looked to him that something he had said had got you into trouble.’
‘Did C
ELERY
explain to you the nature of the double-cross which he was
supposed
to work on you?’ asked Marriott.
‘Yes, he told me immediately we got there. The same day. The whole thing was wide open to me. “Are you working for the Doctor?’ I said. “Of course I
am working for the Doctor; of course I like the Germans very, very much.” He shook hands with me and said “I am with you and the Doctor one hundred percent.”’
‘Did you tell him that you told the Doctor that he was working for us? pressed Marriott.
‘Did I tell him? I didn’t tell him at all. When the meeting came up there was a question asked by the Doctor. The first meeting that C
ELERY
had, he brought up British intelligence.’
‘When you say “he”?’
‘The Doctor,’ replied Owens.
‘In what way?’
‘Regarding the situation I was placed in England and the situation that C
ELERY
was placed. I said he is one hundred percent for me. He turned round to C
ELERY
and said “Is that true?” “One hundred percent. I am with you” he said. If I pull off this okay and go back, I am going to get a staff position. I am going to be made a Lieutenant in the RAF and be of enormous use to you. He said he was promised if he carried out this business successfully and went into Germany and found out all that he could, he was promised a staff job in the RAF and he told that to the Doctor in front of me.’
‘How much did C
ELERY
know of your first meeting with the Doctor?’
‘He knew nothing at all.’
‘He didn’t know then that you had told the Doctor that we knew all about you?’
‘He knew nothing at all. He asked me after the meeting. He said to me ‘“Did you tell the Doctor?” I said, “Yes I did.” He knew before he went into Germany. He said, “Did you tell the Doctor that you were in touch with the British Intelligence.” The Doctor said to me he had information. What could I do? I did not know whether you were. I said yes.’
‘You appreciate that this is exceedingly important. C
ELERY
knew before he left Lisbon that the Doctor…’
‘That I and he were working for the British Intelligence and that C
ELERY
was working for you. The Doctor knew that, I told him that. I had to be straight and above board with him.’
‘What was C
ELERY
’s reaction?’ asked Marriott.
‘Quite okay! “I am ready to go into Germany.” I said “This man is working for the British Intelligence. He has given me his word and assured me that he is one hundred percent for you and maybe you can use him.” “Well we know a little about that man.” Those are his very words to me.’
Owens then repeated the sequence of events that surrounded Dicketts’ arrival in Lisbon and how the Doctor had felt it so important that he met
Dicketts that he postponed his return to Germany. Owens added some new facts about Dicketts’ arrival in Lisbon which were designed to cast more suspicion on C
ELERY
. ‘He was standing by the Office and I said “Good God, if I have ever seen a ghost I have seen one right now.” I said, “How did you get ashore?” “I came ashore without the police knowing.” That can’t be done in Lisbon. Anyhow when he left Lisbon for Germany I looked in his passport and it was stamped by the police.’
Owens was suggesting that C
ELERY
was lying about how he came ashore and that far from doing so in secret he had in fact been let in by the police. However, Marriott was not going to be put off his quest to find out what happened before Dicketts went to Germany and his line of questioning produced cracks in Owens’ story.
‘Why didn’t you tell C
ELERY
as soon as you saw him exactly what you told the Doctor?’
‘I did tell him.’
‘No you didn’t,’ countered Marriott.
‘I told C
ELERY
the Doctor was wise to everything. He knew exactly what I was doing. No, it is wrong, definitely wrong. I can’t have told him.’
‘Then why didn’t you tell him? C
ELERY
was a friend of yours.’
‘No, I am sure I didn’t tell him. I can’t remember anyhow.’
‘It is the most important thing of your trip. Did the Doctor tell you not to tell C
ELERY
?’
‘He didn’t say that at all.’
‘The Doctor knew that C
ELERY
was in the British Secret Service?’
‘Yes, I told him. He knew nothing about him except that I said he was one hundred percent for me and that he could be trusted.’
‘I suggest that the Doctor said you should not tell C
ELERY
anything until he had seen him.’
‘I cannot swear to that. I don’t remember.’
‘There was no other reason why you should not have told C
ELERY
.’
‘None at all… I don’t think I told him.’
‘Until afterwards?’ pressed Marriott.
‘I don’t think so. Whether I told him before to warn him or not, I don’t know. I may have told him.’
‘But you can’t be in doubt about things like that.’
‘You don’t understand the situation.’
‘I understand too well. There was C
ELERY
who was known as a British Secret Service agent and you allowed him to go to the meeting and did not tell him.’
‘I am sure that I must have warned him. Ask him, he has got a good memory.’
Owens’ story appeared to be unravelling and so he then returned to what he perceived as evidence that he has been betrayed. He believed this because Robertson had originally told Dicketts to befriend Arthur Owens in order to find out if he was double-crossing MI5. However, under the pressure of John Marriott’s examination Owens decided to reveal what he believed was more evidence that it was he who has been betrayed.
‘There is somebody who has double-crossed me. One is the Major, one is C
ELERY
. I have been led to believe certain things in Lisbon from our friend that I don’t like at all. I explained a few things to you here. There are other things too which are not very nice.’
‘You must tell us,’ insisted Marriott. ‘It isn’t a question whether it is nice or not. What were they?’
‘One was that as soon as I got back I would be shot.’
‘Why?’ demanded Marriott.
‘I don’t know.’
‘Did you ask him why?’
‘I didn’t ask him why. If I believed him I should never have gone to the embassy. I asked to get back as quickly as possible.’
‘If you didn’t believe that and you didn’t think it is true it doesn’t seem to me to be a nasty thing.’
‘It is a nasty thing to say don’t you think?’
‘Certainly so far as he is concerned. In this context you are talking about things which you say are nasty.’
‘He said that you were holding Lily and the baby as a hostage for me till I got back. He said that definitely. I come back here and I find that you had made some arrangements to look after her and the baby. I didn’t know what to think about that. I was doubtful. Otherwise I would never have asked them to get me back as quickly as possible.’
‘All this is most interesting, most helpful and most important,’ said Marriott.
‘There is something I don’t want to talk about.’
‘We must know. Did he say those things to you within the first hour of you meeting? Before he met the Doctor?’
‘Some before and some after. He told the Doctor I was going to get shot when I got back.’
‘Was it this statement by him which persuaded you to tell the Doctor that he was a British Secret agent?’
‘He told me that in the first place. The reason why he wanted to get over here so quickly was that he wanted to find out as much as he could about me from the Doctor. Luckily he didn’t get through before I did which was a very lucky thing for me. The one thing I was very worried about. Could I contact him and
get him in position so that he could not talk before he meets the Doctor. I can’t remember. I was in such a terrible position from a terrific shock.
‘That man is double-crossing and he is out for the biggest money. In order to get this money he is going to perform some service for the Germans.’
‘What service do you think he could perform if he got this position he is going to get?’
Owens explained that Dicketts had information about aerodromes and about convoys. Owens made Dicketts swear that he wouldn’t give the
position
of the convoys to the Germans. Owens then noted that 130 tons of Allied shipping had recently been sunk.
‘Most of that information we supplied,’ said Marriott.
‘I don’t think you did. Did you supply the information on aeroplane engines and about Filton?’
‘A certain amount. Can you remember any other things that he had?’
‘The production at Speke aerodrome, Liverpool. What they are
manufacturing
there. The manufacture of aeroplane engines. The amount of American stuff coming into Liverpool. Did you supply him with that information?’
‘That is by the way,’ said Marriott. ‘Do you know that he handed that over?’
‘He didn’t say anything when he came back at all. All I know is that he told me he had some very important stuff. All I have seen is this book on Polish atrocities.’
‘You were very surprised that knowing what the Germans knew about him that he went into Germany?’
‘He knew and he told the Doctor certain things. After this meeting I was turned down for going to Germany. I don’t know why. I was told that it would not be advisable for me to go to Germany.’
‘Do you think because the Germans were not sure of you?’
‘I cannot think that,’ replied Owens. ‘They gave me the money and all that. It cannot be that. It turned out that C
ELERY
had to get his photograph taken which he did and in a matter of hours he had a passport. A German passport in the name of Walter Dunkler.
‘I bought him a new coat and hat and a new case to go into Germany. I said “You are a very brave man.” He said, “I shall be alright. Don’t worry about me.”’
Owens then said that after Dicketts went to Germany he waited in Lisbon for days without any word. Owens then said that he asked Doebler if he had any news but he had not heard anything. Eventually Owens said that he decided to go to the British embassy in order to find out if they had any thoughts about what might be happening.
‘The man at the embassy said “I don’t think we will see that man any more. He won’t come out of Germany. He will stay there.” “Well,” I said, “what do you think I should do. I want to get back home. There is something wrong somewhere.” Then Doebler said to me “There is something big going to break soon. I want you to stay in Lisbon.” Doebler said it was a move into Bulgaria which would take place after the twenty-first of March. They were going to move right through into Greece. I said does that mean there will be an invasion. He said “I don’t think there will be an invasion for a month or six weeks. If there is any move in England I will let you know so that you can get back quick.” After what I heard at the embassy regarding this cable about his being one of the most important men, I thought, “That man is exactly what I thought he was and he will double-cross me.”
‘My first impression was that C
ELERY
was there and had given me away. My next impression was that B
ISCUIT
may have given the show away. I don’t know what he said when he was there. They told me afterwards they were very
surprised
that we got the transmitter back safely. After C
ELERY
had talked to me and told me certain things I thought it was you people doing it.’
MI5 pointed out that Owens should have expected Dicketts to profess German sympathies given the nature of their mission. However Owens was saying that even while Dicketts had been living with Owens during the past months he had been running down MI5 and professing his support for Germany.
‘There was no need to do it with me,’ said Owens.
‘Except that if you are going to act a part, you must act it all the time,’ replied Marriott.
‘Well, why run you down over here?’
Having gone as far as he could down this line of enquiry Marriott returned to the question of whether Dicketts had been told that the Doctor knew that they were working for British Intelligence. ‘At your first meeting with the Doctor. Can you remember now whether C
ELERY
knew?’